buying an apartment in spain

[Phooey]

I've not had chance to sit down and watch this yet, but this vid could be worth a watch for anyone thinking of buying in and around the New Golden Mile?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5DZ3ibPr-o

[EastMidsEng]

Slightly off topic but do any of you have any experience using the Self Employment Visa for Spain?

We have been wanting to move from the UK for a long time now but of course Brexit has made that quite difficult for permanent residence options across Europe. We are in our 30's 1 child with not enough funds to retire early like most on PH!

I understand totally this would be an absolutely huge undertaking not only moving country but also starting a business at the sometime. Before we give up on the thought of leaving the UK for now, I want to explore this possibility.

I want to make it clear I wouldn't be starting the business just to leave the UK and get a visa, my second option is to do that in the UK anyway.

Would be good to hear some stories of people who have used this route. The requirements seem quite clear but I can imagine the reality of the paperwork is particularly stressful.

[rdjohn]

ooid said:

Phil. said:

Spanish properties often have very little insulation.

Totally aware, spent most of my youth and later holidays in Barcelona. Our parents have a flat near Gothic. They used to also live in Diagonal, more family oriented but I think we are used to outdoor activities irrespective of the season there..Unlike U.K. having a flat there will never be a deal-breaker for me personally.

Properties built post 2010 are much better. Cooler in summer, warm in winter. We spend the winter there and a January bill is about €50 with an Aerothermia system and a south facing apartment. In December our 2003 UK apartment can get to £70/week.

[Chris Stott]

EastMidsEng said:

Slightly off topic but do any of you have any experience using the Self Employment Visa for Spain?

We have been wanting to move from the UK for a long time now but of course Brexit has made that quite difficult for permanent residence options across Europe. We are in our 30's 1 child with not enough funds to retire early like most on PH!

I understand totally this would be an absolutely huge undertaking not only moving country but also starting a business at the sometime. Before we give up on the thought of leaving the UK for now, I want to explore this possibility.

I want to make it clear I wouldn't be starting the business just to leave the UK and get a visa, my second option is to do that in the UK anyway.

Would be good to hear some stories of people who have used this route. The requirements seem quite clear but I can imagine the reality of the paperwork is particularly stressful.

Not sure what a ‘self employed visa’ is.

As far as I’m aware, there’s…

1. Non lucrative - need to prove funds and not allowed to work. Easyish to get if you have plenty of cash and a nice pension.
2. Full visa - allows you to work… very hard to get.
3. Digital nomad - allows you to live in spain while working (remotely) in another country. Still fairly new, so not sure how easy/hard to secure.
4. Golden - need to spend €500k/person… due to be abolished.

Spain has fairly high unemployment, so you’d really need to have a sponsor to get a full visa… someone who guarantees work (typically a long-term employer operating in multiple countries).

Coming here to start a business would be nigh on a mpossible. Setting up a limited company for example, is difficult, complex and expensive even for established residents.

Brexit… the gift that keeps in giving.

Edit… Googled, and it is a thing (you learn something every day). Sounds simple to apply for, but I would expect approval to be highly unlikely unless you have a unique business idea.

Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 15th May 13:25

[rdjohn]

The guy who does jobs for me is Bolivian.

I don't think that South Americans have special consideration, but he has created a small enterprise employing / working with a few other guys, mainly Colombians.

[Chris Stott]

rdjohn said:

The guy who does jobs for me is Bolivian.

I don't think that South Americans have special consideration, but he has created a small enterprise employing / working with a few other guys, mainly Colombians.

Could be a number of reasons why he can work in Spain… married to a Spaniard or Spanish parents, for example.

Getting a working visa for Spain is very difficult!

[rdjohn]

Chris Stott said:

Could be a number of reasons why he can work in Spain… married to a Spaniard or Spanish parents, for example.

Getting a working visa for Spain is very difficult!

Ah, his grandmother is Spanish, so a bit like those with Irish ancestry post Brexit.

I do come across a lot of Columbians, waiting in restaurants etc. The wife of my barber is Columbian. She is quite a gifted artist and did a mural for us, but she mainly works either doing nails, or as a chambermaid.

[Rushjob]

Chris Stott said:

EastMidsEng said:

Slightly off topic but do any of you have any experience using the Self Employment Visa for Spain?

We have been wanting to move from the UK for a long time now but of course Brexit has made that quite difficult for permanent residence options across Europe. We are in our 30's 1 child with not enough funds to retire early like most on PH!

I understand totally this would be an absolutely huge undertaking not only moving country but also starting a business at the sometime. Before we give up on the thought of leaving the UK for now, I want to explore this possibility.

I want to make it clear I wouldn't be starting the business just to leave the UK and get a visa, my second option is to do that in the UK anyway.

Would be good to hear some stories of people who have used this route. The requirements seem quite clear but I can imagine the reality of the paperwork is particularly stressful.

Not sure what a ‘self employed visa’ is.

As far as I’m aware, there’s…

1. Non lucrative - need to prove funds and not allowed to work. Easyish to get if you have plenty of cash and a nice pension.
2. Full visa - allows you to work… very hard to get.
3. Digital nomad - allows you to live in spain while working (remotely) in another country. Still fairly new, so not sure how easy/hard to secure.
4. Golden - need to spend €500k/person… due to be abolished.

Spain has fairly high unemployment, so you’d really need to have a sponsor to get a full visa… someone who guarantees work (typically a long-term employer operating in multiple countries).

Coming here to start a business would be nigh on a mpossible. Setting up a limited company for example, is difficult, complex and expensive even for established residents.

Brexit… the gift that keeps in giving.

Edit… Googled, and it is a thing (you learn something every day). Sounds simple to apply for, but I would expect approval to be highly unlikely unless you have a unique business idea.

Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 15th May 13:25

It's called the Autonomo or Self Employed visa

You need to submit a business case first, so that the authorities can decide whether it is likely that you have a reasonable chance of making a go of the business, then if this is approved, you make the visa application. You need then to have sufficient cash to support you whilst getting the business off the ground.

Not easy but folks do manage it.

CLICK HERE FOR DETAILED INFO

[Chris Stott]

Yeah, lots of Columbians.

My Belgian neighbour has a Colombian girlfriend.

[Shnozz]

Phooey said:

Would always prefer a villa but as far as apartments goes this one doesn't look bad (below). But why don't Spanish property listing sites include the exact location of their properties like we do (Rightmove)? I'd like to know where this, and other properties are located so I can play with Google street view etc. I'm only tyre kicking so I'm not going to contact the agent, but it's like looking at a car for sale without knowing the milage.. frustrating.

https://www.terrameridiana.com/ref-TMRA11557_apart...

The lack of floorplan was also a massive gripe of mine. Amazing given the commissions they charge that many of the agents give appalling particulars; especially so when appealing to an international audience that are often doing their browsing of property from thousands of miles away and yet have no clue on the exact geography or layout of the property. Beggars belief and often thought of starting an agency doing so despite no experience whatsoever. 5% commissions and some room dimensions, a floorplan and a map showing more accurate locations cannot be that hard can it?!

[ooid]

I have family members and quite good friends who used self employed visa types in the past. Actually some of them later in life obtained Spanish citizenship too. It's not easy, their system is extremely burocratic but once someone set their life target to live there I think it's doable.

We have family business(restaurants) in Spain and I must say it is a pita. The system is definitely not pro-business (unlike UK) and mostly you are relying on tourists as locals do not spend much.. -though this could be location-sector specific. You need to have a strong local connections to make it work (accountants, lawyers, and etc..) or partner up with a local firm. Finding good employees also not easy.

Business aside, it is a bloody paradise I must say. Beautiful weather, fully functioning public transport, health services and great social life.

[EastMidsEng]

Chris Stott said:

Not sure what a ‘self employed visa’ is.

As far as I’m aware, there’s…

1. Non lucrative - need to prove funds and not allowed to work. Easyish to get if you have plenty of cash and a nice pension.
2. Full visa - allows you to work… very hard to get.
3. Digital nomad - allows you to live in spain while working (remotely) in another country. Still fairly new, so not sure how easy/hard to secure.
4. Golden - need to spend €500k/person… due to be abolished.

Spain has fairly high unemployment, so you’d really need to have a sponsor to get a full visa… someone who guarantees work (typically a long-term employer operating in multiple countries).

Coming here to start a business would be nigh on a mpossible. Setting up a limited company for example, is difficult, complex and expensive even for established residents.

Brexit… the gift that keeps in giving.

Edit… Googled, and it is a thing (you learn something every day). Sounds simple to apply for, but I would expect approval to be highly unlikely unless you have a unique business idea.

Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 15th May 13:25

Oh yeah its definitely a thing and would seem quite a good option for those brave enough to go for it. The realities of business in Spain is what is worrying me the most, especially as most of my customers would be back in the UK. The higher TAX rate isn't appealing as well

[EastMidsEng]

ooid said:

I have family members and quite good friends who used self employed visa types in the past. Actually some of them later in life obtained Spanish citizenship too. It's not easy, their system is extremely burocratic but once someone set their life target to live there I think it's doable.

We have family business(restaurants) in Spain and I must say it is a pita. The system is definitely not pro-business (unlike UK) and mostly you are relying on tourists as locals do not spend much.. -though this could be location-sector specific. You need to have a strong local connections to make it work (accountants, lawyers, and etc..) or partner up with a local firm. Finding good employees also not easy.

Business aside, it is a bloody paradise I must say. Beautiful weather, fully functioning public transport, health services and great social life.

This is what is putting me off tbh; the UK is one of the best places to start a business despite the other negatives. So its a trade off between that and (hopefully) having a much better quality of life in Spain which is so appealing.

I'm going to reach out to some immigration lawyers and see if they can tell me what my changes of success are getting granted this visa. The rest would be down to me after that.

[Shnozz]

EastMidsEng said:

ooid said:

I have family members and quite good friends who used self employed visa types in the past. Actually some of them later in life obtained Spanish citizenship too. It's not easy, their system is extremely burocratic but once someone set their life target to live there I think it's doable.

We have family business(restaurants) in Spain and I must say it is a pita. The system is definitely not pro-business (unlike UK) and mostly you are relying on tourists as locals do not spend much.. -though this could be location-sector specific. You need to have a strong local connections to make it work (accountants, lawyers, and etc..) or partner up with a local firm. Finding good employees also not easy.

Business aside, it is a bloody paradise I must say. Beautiful weather, fully functioning public transport, health services and great social life.

This is what is putting me off tbh; the UK is one of the best places to start a business despite the other negatives. So its a trade off between that and (hopefully) having a much better quality of life in Spain which is so appealing.

I'm going to reach out to some immigration lawyers and see if they can tell me what my changes of success are getting granted this visa. The rest would be down to me after that.

Two reasons I’m not planning on adopting Spanish residency. The bureaucracy you identify and the level of tax. Whilst many moan about U.K. tax levels, the Spanish tax levels make me wince. Even just the basic allowance is half the U.K., before considering the tax rates payable further up the scale. I’ll stick with 50/50 time wise and adhere to the 90/180 rules, albeit needs careful monitoring especially if you have a need to spend additional days/weeks within the EU for whatever reasons.

[Riff Raff]

Shnozz said:

Two reasons I’m not planning on adopting Spanish residency. The bureaucracy you identify and the level of tax. Whilst many moan about U.K. tax levels, the Spanish tax levels make me wince. Even just the basic allowance is half the U.K., before considering the tax rates payable further up the scale. I’ll stick with 50/50 time wise and adhere to the 90/180 rules, albeit needs careful monitoring especially if you have a need to spend additional days/weeks within the EU for whatever reasons.

I'm in the same boat. We'd be paying a lot more tax if we became Spanish residents. The only slight positive for me is that my Mrs. is Spanish, which means, (I think anyway) that as long as I'm accompanying her on her visits, the 90/180 days rule doesn't apply in my case. The 90/180 doesn't apply to her as a Spanish citizen. How I'd ever go about proving we were together if asked once the passport processing goes digital I have no idea.

Looking forward to my next trip out in a couple of weeks. My other half is already in Spain doing another chunk of the Camino de Santiago: I'll meet up with her when there's no intense exercise involved.

[Shnozz]

Riff Raff said:

Shnozz said:

Two reasons I’m not planning on adopting Spanish residency. The bureaucracy you identify and the level of tax. Whilst many moan about U.K. tax levels, the Spanish tax levels make me wince. Even just the basic allowance is half the U.K., before considering the tax rates payable further up the scale. I’ll stick with 50/50 time wise and adhere to the 90/180 rules, albeit needs careful monitoring especially if you have a need to spend additional days/weeks within the EU for whatever reasons.

I'm in the same boat. We'd be paying a lot more tax if we became Spanish residents. The only slight positive for me is that my Mrs. is Spanish, which means, (I think anyway) that as long as I'm accompanying her on her visits, the 90/180 days rule doesn't apply in my case. The 90/180 doesn't apply to her as a Spanish citizen. How I'd ever go about proving we were together if asked once the passport processing goes digital I have no idea.

Looking forward to my next trip out in a couple of weeks. My other half is already in Spain doing another chunk of the Camino de Santiago: I'll meet up with her when there's no intense exercise involved.

I’m also in that boat as Mrs Shnozz is Scandinavian, but I don’t fancy trying to argue the point with a grumpy border officer to be honest. We also usually get designated to the respective EU/UK gate so would have to insist on being kept together. In theory it shouldn’t be an issue but I don’t know of anyone who has tried it in practice.

[Phil.]

Riff Raff said:

I'm in the same boat. We'd be paying a lot more tax if we became Spanish residents. The only slight positive for me is that my Mrs. is Spanish, which means, (I think anyway) that as long as I'm accompanying her on her visits, the 90/180 days rule doesn't apply in my case. The 90/180 doesn't apply to her as a Spanish citizen. How I'd ever go about proving we were together if asked once the passport processing goes digital I have no idea.

Looking forward to my next trip out in a couple of weeks. My other half is already in Spain doing another chunk of the Camino de Santiago: I'll meet up with her when there's no intense exercise involved.

Once Schengen wide electronic system is up and running they’ll be able to track whether you were travelling alone or with your wife. There will be no arguing when the computer pops up a red flag. The 90/180 day thing is complete PITA for regular visitors.

[Shnozz]

Phil. said:

Once Schengen wide electronic system is up and running they’ll be able to track whether you were travelling alone or with your wife. There will be no arguing when the computer pops up a red flag. The 90/180 day thing is complete PITA for regular visitors.

But then if you are travelling with your EU spouse then the system won’t presumably automatically let you through. Bit of a minefield.

[Phil.]

Shnozz said:

But then if you are travelling with your EU spouse then the system won’t presumably automatically let you through. Bit of a minefield.

I’m sure there will be many cockups once the new system begins! It’s the EU after all.

[SpidersWeb]

Riff Raff said:

The 90/180 doesn't apply to her as a Spanish citizen. How I'd ever go about proving we were together if asked once the passport processing goes digital I have no idea.

ETIAS which is the 'visa waiver' that non-EU citizens will have to complete, and on it you will declare that you are married to an EU citizen with their details - your wife obviously won't need to submit an ETIAS as she is an EU citizen, and as a bonus, since you are married to an EU citizen then your ETIAS application is free.

Then when you travel EES will be aware from your passport scan (and the ETIAS stored on it) when you are in the EU and also from your wife's passport scans when she is in the EU, and then EES will not count against your 90/180 the days when you are *both* there - if you are in the EU and she is not your days count. And because the calculation is done within EES it will discount those days you are both there even if you are not travelling together, or even in the same EU county at the same time.

EES will have a website portal so anyone (married to EU citizen or not) can check the days they have left out of the 90/180, so you will be able to see if it has correctly recorded.