Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[djc206]

Vasco said:

I appreciate that we're only going over the same ground, time and again.

Essentially, this new, more militant, doctors union has handled this 35% very badly.
Rightly or wrongly, such regular striking by doctors has harmed their cause - and achieved nothing.

I fully support that the doctors should be well paid - and also aim to recoup poorer rewards over some previous years -
but the union should now accept the 9% (plus some extras/fine tuning if possible).

I'm a bit puzzled that many on PH must be doctors but they're generally rather quiet on this key issue.

Indeed. I think 9% plus some tinkering is too low. I doubt it would take much more to see the strikes end though.

If it were my union/profession striking I would be very careful about what I posted.

[turbobloke]

djc206 said:

Vasco said:

I appreciate that we're only going over the same ground, time and again.

Essentially, this new, more militant, doctors union has handled this 35% very badly.
Rightly or wrongly, such regular striking by doctors has harmed their cause - and achieved nothing.

I fully support that the doctors should be well paid - and also aim to recoup poorer rewards over some previous years -
but the union should now accept the 9% (plus some extras/fine tuning if possible).

I'm a bit puzzled that many on PH must be doctors but they're generally rather quiet on this key issue.

Indeed. I think 9% plus some tinkering is too low. I doubt it would take much more to see the strikes end though.

If it were my union/profession striking I would be very careful about what I posted.

WTF? Was that a comment or a hint to potential contributors? It doesn't read well. Thought management? Censorious control freakery? PoliticsЯus? Midnight knocks on the door? Is stand-over thuggery just a word away?

Shame, but symptomatic. It's about time the deluded marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee received a call from the WideAwake Club.

PH (a mere tyre kicker assembly): open for thought.

[Killboy]

turbobloke said:

WTF? Was that a comment or a hint to potential contributors? It doesn't read well. Thought management? Censorious control freakery? Politics?us? Midnight knocks on the door? Is stand-over thuggery just a word away?

Shame, but symptomatic. It's about time the deluded marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee received a call from the WideAwake Club.

PH (a mere tyre kicker assembly): open for thought.

Can anyone translate this?

[Gary C]

Killboy said:

turbobloke said:

WTF? Was that a comment or a hint to potential contributors? It doesn't read well. Thought management? Censorious control freakery? Politics?us? Midnight knocks on the door? Is stand-over thuggery just a word away?

Shame, but symptomatic. It's about time the deluded marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee received a call from the WideAwake Club.

PH (a mere tyre kicker assembly): open for thought.

Can anyone translate this?

Simple enough I would have thought.

An objection to the statement about not talking about Fight Club... I mean the strike if your a member of the JD union.

[Killboy]

Gary C said:

Simple enough I would have thought.

An objection to the statement about not talking about Fight Club... I mean the strike if your a member of the JD union.

A bit of an odd way to say that then. Why would one want to air their situation on PH where the WideAwake (or the opposite side - difficult to tell) club think anyone earning £32001 is overpaid?

[AstonZagato]

turbobloke said:

WTF? Was that a comment or a hint to potential contributors? It doesn't read well. Thought management? Censorious control freakery? Politics?us? Midnight knocks on the door? Is stand-over thuggery just a word away?

Shame, but symptomatic. It's about time the deluded marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee received a call from the WideAwake Club.

PH (a mere tyre kicker assembly): open for thought.

Isn't he merely saying that it probably isn't great for a doctor to express views here to which his managers might object? When I was working, I was extremely careful about posting on any topic that was immediately adjacent to my field and might get picked up by my partners or clients.

[Gary C]

Killboy said:

Gary C said:

Simple enough I would have thought.

An objection to the statement about not talking about Fight Club... I mean the strike if your a member of the JD union.

A bit of an odd way to say that then. Why would one want to air their situation on PH where the WideAwake (or the opposite side - difficult to tell) club think anyone earning £32001 is overpaid?

Maybe, but I agree that its not right to be saying to people to 'think carefully' about what they post if they are a member of the JD union.

Almost suggesting censorship.

[turbobloke]

Gary C said:

Killboy said:

Gary C said:

Simple enough I would have thought.

An objection to the statement about not talking about Fight Club... I mean the strike if your a member of the JD union.

A bit of an odd way to say that then. Why would one want to air their situation on PH where the WideAwake (or the opposite side - difficult to tell) club think anyone earning £32001 is overpaid?

Maybe, but I agree that its not right to be saying to people to 'think carefully' about what they post if they are a member of the JD union.

Almost suggesting censorship.

It's not right. It smacks of censorship reflecting fear over fragility in the BMA JD union position and tactics.

[Killboy]

Gary C said:

Maybe, but I agree that its not right to be saying to people to 'think carefully' about what they post if they are a member of the JD union.

Almost suggesting censorship.

Who is suggesting censorship? Censorious control freakery? Midnight knocks on the door? stand-over thuggery? marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee, WideAwake Club?

Where is this coming from?

Its pay negotiation. Its pretty simple really. People have been pretty open about what's going on on this thread, pity others don't seem to be able to understand it

[Gary C]

Killboy said:

Gary C said:

Maybe, but I agree that its not right to be saying to people to 'think carefully' about what they post if they are a member of the JD union.

Almost suggesting censorship.

Who is suggesting censorship? Censorious control freakery? Midnight knocks on the door? stand-over thuggery? marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee, WideAwake Club?

Where is this coming from?

Its pay negotiation. Its pretty simple really. People have been pretty open about what's going on on this thread, pity others don't seem to be able to understand it

I think your arguing with the wrong person.

[turbobloke]

Gary C said:

Killboy said:

Gary C said:

Maybe, but I agree that its not right to be saying to people to 'think carefully' about what they post if they are a member of the JD union.

Almost suggesting censorship.

Who is suggesting censorship? Censorious control freakery? Midnight knocks on the door? stand-over thuggery? marxist minority of t'JD BMA commitee, WideAwake Club?

Where is this coming from?

Its pay negotiation. Its pretty simple really. People have been pretty open about what's going on on this thread, pity others don't seem to be able to understand it

I think your arguing with the wrong person.

ISWYM but it's not even arguing, it's assertion in polly parrot mode.

Hinting (or warning) that PH JDs should stfu wasn't in my post, nor was that ludicrously censorious approach present in any way shape or form. That was from somewhere else. If anybody is defending it, shame on them. JDs need to be free to express their opinions either way. My reply was in support for open debate. If anyone opposes that, shame on them too.

If there's nobody suggesting that JDs should keep quiet, nor anybody saying that debate should be shut down in any way, they could say so explicity. If censorious behaviour is being supported, likewise speak out, and why not explain at the same time. Otherwise we're actually in agreement.

Whatever else, recent replies don't suggest confidence in the current JD position.

[Killboy]

Gary C said:

I think your arguing with the wrong person.

As you can see from the post above, it's a bit pointless. Even he has no idea where he got it.

[turbobloke]

It's not YouGov, then again neither is it good news for the BMA JD political activists...a survey of constituents by a Conservative MP in Shropshire found 62% of South Shropshire resident respondents are against the strikes, with only 35% in support. It also found attempts from activists to infuence the outcome using 'fake' addresses. Straight and open debate is disliked elsewhere, clearly. Shame on whoever it is; more at the link below.

The report also notes that 51% of respondents supported the current offer, 28% wanted an improved government offer, and 18% backed the BMA demands. As many as 18% is surprising. This PH poll has support for the BMA's ludicrous demand at 11% iirc.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/2024/01...

More shooting messenger fallacies incoming.

[272BHP]

I don't think there any immediate worries about pay putting off young people wanting to be doctors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zcjhg2p

Top ten desirable careers for teenagers:

In first place - Doctor

Top ten places to work:

In first place - NHS

[Vasco]

272BHP said:

I don't think there any immediate worries about pay putting off young people wanting to be doctors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zcjhg2p

Top ten desirable careers for teenagers:

In first place - Doctor

Top ten places to work:

In first place - NHS

Sounds much like some good, sensible, young people have their heads screwed on the right way.

[Killboy]

Along with Footballers, Artists and Teachers. Teenagers seem to like living on the breadline.

[Dixy]

272BHP said:

I don't think there any immediate worries about pay putting off young people wanting to be doctors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zcjhg2p

Top ten desirable careers for teenagers:

In first place - Doctor

Top ten places to work:

In first place - NHS

Well done you have highlighted exactly the problem.
It is a job teenagers want and so do their parents and so do their schools. So the universities pick the best primarily on academic standards and the state then spends a lot getting them qualified.
BUT
A lot then find it is not suited to academics as they have to do unspeakable things with sick humans.
They find that that the work life balance is tilted too far in the wrong direction.
The rewards available are far greater elsewhere.

They loose out, the patients loose out and the state loses out.

[carlo996]

Vasco said:

Sounds much like some good, sensible, young people have their heads screwed on the right way.

Until they get in and realise the realities of earning a living?

[irc]

Dixy said:

A lot then find it is not suited to academics as they have to do unspeakable things with sick humans.
They find that that the work life balance is tilted too far in the wrong direction.
The rewards available are far greater elsewhere.

If they weren't aware that doctoring involves working with human bodies and working shifts maybe they are not as intelligent as all that.

If job security, good pensions, and earning in the top 15% of salaries 5 years out of university isn't good enough then maybe they need to reset their expectations.

[Vasco]

irc said:

Dixy said:

A lot then find it is not suited to academics as they have to do unspeakable things with sick humans.
They find that that the work life balance is tilted too far in the wrong direction.
The rewards available are far greater elsewhere.

If they weren't aware that doctoring involves working with human bodies and working shifts maybe they are not as intelligent as all that.

If job security, good pensions, and earning in the top 15% of salaries 5 years out of university isn't good enough then maybe they need to reset their expectations.

Quite. Well said.

Virtually all those in the medical professions that I have dealt with have been excellent - and clearly thoroughly enjoy their job.

Perhaps others should try it and see whether they can attain greater overall job satisfaction than many other 'easier' occupations.