Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[gangzoom]

Consultant pay deal is almost certainly ‘resolved’ now, this is the ‘base’ pay, no including any additional PAs, Clinical Excellence Awards, or other pay supplements such as out-of-hours oncall. There will clearly be associated upflit in pensions package.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68479402#

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 5th March 19:07

[djc206]

gangzoom said:

Consultant pay deal is almost certainly ‘resolved’ now, this is the ‘base’ pay, no including any additional PAs, Clinical Excellence Awards, or other pay supplements such as out-of-hours oncall. There will clearly be associated upflit in pensions package.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68479402#

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 5th March 19:07

Out of curiosity at the top end of that pay scale what would a typical consultant earn without any overtime? I know the range is substantial because of clinical excellence but what would be a rough average be?

Am I reading it right that it’s 19 years as a consultant to get to the top? Ie ~50 years old?

[gangzoom]

djc206 said:

Out of curiosity at the top end of that pay scale what would a typical consultant earn without any overtime? I know the range is substantial because of clinical excellence but what would be a rough average be?

I suspect very few consultants have identical job plans even in the same department. The pay is the pay, but what’s makes up the job plan is far more important.

[carlo996]

gangzoom said:

Consultant pay deal is almost certainly ‘resolved’ now, this is the ‘base’ pay, no including any additional PAs, Clinical Excellence Awards, or other pay supplements such as out-of-hours oncall. There will clearly be associated upflit in pensions package.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68479402#

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 5th March 19:07

Kind of shoots the Junior Doctors arguments in the foot tbh.

[djc206]

gangzoom said:

djc206 said:

Out of curiosity at the top end of that pay scale what would a typical consultant earn without any overtime? I know the range is substantial because of clinical excellence but what would be a rough average be?

I suspect very few consultants have identical job plans even in the same department. The pay is the pay, but what’s makes up the job plan is far more important. During the industrial action cover, most Consultants opted for ‘time back’ versus taking extra pay even at close to the BMA rate card. Time is the most value part of any job plan, its almost impossible to account for the variation in consultant plans.

I’m sure there’s a great deal of variation but surely you can just take the above pay figure, the average clinical excellence award and the average additional payments for shifts/oncall add them up and bingo, rough average remuneration before overtime?

[sawman]

gangzoom said:

Consultant pay deal is almost certainly ‘resolved’ now, this is the ‘base’ pay, no including any additional PAs, Clinical Excellence Awards, or other pay supplements such as out-of-hours oncall. There will clearly be associated upflit in pensions package.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68479402#

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 5th March 19:07

Hope those in the yellow and pale green columns arent too disappointed when they work out the marginal tax rate on their one off payment, I bet whats left will barely cover their pret a manger bill

[gangzoom]

djc206 said:

I’m sure there’s a great deal of variation but surely you can just take the above pay figure, the average clinical excellence award and the average additional payments for shifts/oncall add them up and bingo, rough average remuneration before overtime?

Pay is not the most important part of Consultant job plans as the pay is fixed nationally. What goes into the job plan is far more important. If you want extra pay there is plenty of ways to get it, but you will have to trade in your time for that pay.

Having a job plan that reflects the work you most enjoy is what most Consultants prioritise.

[gangzoom]

sawman said:

Hope those in the yellow and pale green columns arent too disappointed when they work out the marginal tax rate on their one off payment, I bet whats left will barely cover their pret a manger bill

It's not a one off payment but an uplift in basic pay, any additional supplements is calculated as a % of basic pay, as is the pension payments. If this was a one off single payment zero chance of it passing the vote.

[sawman]

gangzoom said:

It's not a one off payment but an uplift in basic pay, any additional supplements is calculated as a % of basic pay, as is the pension payments. If this was a one off single payment zero chance of it passing the vote.

Fair enough, only heard a bit of the piece on the radio news, mind you the tax for those in the £100-125k range plus their student loan payments will see most of the headline figure heading back to the treasury wont it?

[gangzoom]

sawman said:

Fair enough, only heard a bit of the piece on the radio news, mind you the tax for those in the £100-125k range plus their student loan payments will see most of the headline figure heading back to the treasury wont it?

If you are in threshold 9, the £6000ish uplift will become £8000 for most Consultants on a 12PA+oncall supplement. I suspect for 2025 there will be another 2-3% uplift, so by 25/26 it'll be close to £10k uplift in pay compared to 22/23. I know this is PHs so most people are earning £10k before lunch, but an extra £600/month net pay increase is better than nothing.

[Dixy]

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

[272BHP]

Dixy said:

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

[borcy]

Dixy said:

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

Gods ?

[JagLover]

Dixy said:

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

£132K + a good pension is likely around the 98th percentile level. Even deities who work for the government still have to be paid for by the taxes of everyone else in work.

[djc206]

gangzoom said:

djc206 said:

I’m sure there’s a great deal of variation but surely you can just take the above pay figure, the average clinical excellence award and the average additional payments for shifts/oncall add them up and bingo, rough average remuneration before overtime?

Pay is not the most important part of Consultant job plans as the pay is fixed nationally. What goes into the job plan is far more important. If you want extra pay there is plenty of ways to get it, but you will have to trade in your time for that pay.

Having a job plan that reflects the work you most enjoy is what most Consultants prioritise.

With all due respect (and I mean that, I appreciate your input in this thread) I asked a fairly simple question and you’ve responded twice without answering. I know time is important to people, I know job satisfaction and career development are important to consultants, they are to most people who aren't consultants including me. I was asking for a rough idea of how much extra a typical consultant earns on top of that basic pay amount without doing any overtime? Just to gauge how total remuneration fairs against other professions really. It’s fine if you don’t want to or can’t answer the question, just say so, I’ll respect that.

[gangzoom]

borcy said:

Dixy said:

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

Gods ?

Quite disturbing comment. Luckily the GMC doesn't share that view .

https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/prof...

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 6th March 07:48

[gangzoom]

djc206 said:

Just to gauge how total remuneration fairs against other professions really. It’s fine if you don’t want to or can’t answer the question, just say so, I’ll respect that.

The remunerations are all there in black and white, as is the BMA rate card, and even partner pay is published in surgery reports. What is impossible to answer is what individual job plans consist of. There is no such thing as a 'standard' consultant job plan, everyone is doing something different from each other. To fully understand remunerations you have to understand what you are remunerated for, I certainly have no idea where to start on answering that question.

[Dixy]

gangzoom said:

borcy said:

Dixy said:

2 things stand out from the consultants offer.
Firstly how little we value and reward the nearest thing we have to gods and secondly the changes to the SPA could be a significant stumbling block.

Gods ?

Quite disturbing comment. Luckily the GMC doesn't share that view .

https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/prof...

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 6th March 07:48

My D I L has just cct'd in emergency medicine. On a daily basis she has someone present to her who is essentially dead, through her skill and that of her team, some of them go back to their loved ones. Jesus only brought 3 back from the dead.
If my wife arrived in ED dying and the consultant said I can save her in return for the V5 on your Aston I would not need to think about it.
As I have said on this thread before, I make far more than the NHS pay any doctor, I contribute far less to the quality of peoples lives and I certainly work less hard.
Society does not recognise or reward but should.

[gangzoom]

Dixy said:

As I have said on this thread before, I make far more than the NHS pay any doctor, I contribute far less to the quality of peoples lives and I certainly work less hard.

Society does not recognise or reward but should.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that, this film from 1971 sums up nearly all the same challenges medicine faces in 2024. The ending summaries why I personally love the job.......Oh doctors aren't allowed by law to accept any gift from patients, so keep driving the Aston .

https://youtu.be/qMsPXSMTpFI?si=QacyuTtQjU46F1ys

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 6th March 11:56

[djc206]

gangzoom said:

djc206 said:

Just to gauge how total remuneration fairs against other professions really. It’s fine if you don’t want to or can’t answer the question, just say so, I’ll respect that.

The remunerations are all there in black and white, as is the BMA rate card, and even partner pay is published in surgery reports. What is impossible to answer is what individual job plans consist of. There is no such thing as a 'standard' consultant job plan, everyone is doing something different from each other. To fully understand remunerations you have to understand what you are remunerated for, I certainly have no idea where to start on answering that question.

Not really. I have no idea what the average clinical excellence award is across all NHS consultants for example?