Burglary at remote Peak District farm, murder arrest

[Earthdweller]

Shades of Tony Martin?

Man arrested on suspicion of murder at remote farmhouse after police find one man dead inside and another injured outside, both having been shot

“Officers were called to reports of a break-in at a remote Peak District farmhouse early this morning.

They found a man with fatal injuries inside the property and another seriously hurt in the road outside around 1.20am. Both had been shot.

Officers cordoned off a large section of a country lane, in Whaley Bridge, Derbyshire, and launched a murder investigation.

The injured man was taken to hospital for treatment and arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary. A third suspect was also arrested on suspicion of the same offence this afternoon after being stopped by police in a vehicle on the A6, near Chapel-en-le-frith.

Neighbours said the incident appeared to have been a 'burglary that went wrong.'

A woman, who lives close the farm, said: 'The farm is in a remote location, quite deep in the valley and set back from the main road.

'I suspect it was an opportunistic burglary that has gone wrong.'”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13372033/...

[Earthdweller]

Camoradi said:

Eric Mc said:

Tons of case law exists regarding situations like this. It all hinges on "reasonable force" and depends very much on the circumstances of the case. Shooting somebody dead just because they are on your property , on its own, is not considered "reasonable force" in English Law.

However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.

You don't need to prove that you were in clear danger, but to satisfy the police/cps that you believed you were.

"Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an
arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgments over the
level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you
honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would
be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the
case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more
force you can lawfully use in self-defence."

from https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documen...

Interesting is the arrest for the offence of aggravated burglary which is committed when someone enters a property with a weapon of offence .. ie firearm, imitation firearm or any article made or adapted for causing injury/incapacitation or explosive device

The sentence is life imprisonment

If confronted by said burglars then the level of force to defend oneself reasonably would be at a higher level

Using lethal force to defend against the use of or threat of lethal force could well be quite reasonable

[Earthdweller]

bhstewie said:

Fastpedeller said:

Can shooting them be self-defence if you believe the burglars have weapons and are approaching?

No idea.

There isn't ever going to be a written down list of when you categorically can and can't shoot people there will always be tests applied about whether it was reasonable and justifiable etc.

I think that's the point isn't it?

Absolutely the Police/CPS will look at the threat and the response to it and then decide if the response was proportionate, necessary and appropriate, in effect whether it was lawful

There’s no hard and fast answer to the question

If they feel the response was lawful then there likely will be no charge, if there is doubt or they believe the evidential threshold for murder/manslaughter has been passed then it will be up to a jury to decide

They may also feel that it would be in the public interest for a court to decide

So proportionality, legality, evidential test and public interest will guide them