PoE Digital CCTV systems

[anxious_ant]

Chris Type R said:

I've updated my reply above with a few other "man-math" options

Cheers! I've also edited my reply too
4 cameras is more than enough for me, 6 is just overkill for my small property.
I currently run 2 Blink cameras for those odd areas which works well. These are only triggered by motion during set hours.

I have also stumbled across the one you've added at £550, and yes the turret camera does offer more flexibility in mounting options.
This price is more than HiLook bundle, but has better cameras. Definitly stretching my budget as I also need to find someone to install it, but as you've said it's a long term investment.

edit: Noticed the HiLook bundle does color night vision (ColorVu). Tempting but not sure if this is of any use?

Edited by anxious_ant on Sunday 9th January 11:20

[LocoBlade]

Not up for installing it yourself? Running Cat5 cable is perfectly DIY-able with a cheap tool kit from Amazon to terminate the ends, the overall difficulty entirely depends on what kind of access you have to soffits/loft spaces/under floorboards etc.

[OldGermanHeaps]

thebraketester said:

Hikvision are pretty much industry standard and used everywhere.

If you are on Mac then software is about 5 years behind and some functions are limited (one being you cannot view the camera streams via safari)

The apps and hardware are good and rarely fail. The only issues we have ever had with ours is hard drives failing but that's not a hikvision issue.

The proper hik stuff has worked on safari without a plugin for around 18 months. Most recorders from the last 5 years can have their firmware updated to allow this.

[OldGermanHeaps]

anxious_ant said:

Cheers! I've also edited my reply too
4 cameras is more than enough for me, 6 is just overkill for my small property.
I currently run 2 Blink cameras for those odd areas which works well. These are only triggered by motion during set hours.

I have also stumbled across the one you've added at £550, and yes the turret camera does offer more flexibility in mounting options.
This price is more than HiLook bundle, but has better cameras. Definitly stretching my budget as I also need to find someone to install it, but as you've said it's a long term investment.

edit: Noticed the HiLook bundle does color night vision (ColorVu). Tempting but not sure if this is of any use?

Edited by anxious_ant on Sunday 9th January 11:20

Colorvu makes a huge difference, and is much more forgiving to inexperienced installers as you dont have problems with IR bounceback.

[thebraketester]

OldGermanHeaps said:

thebraketester said:

Hikvision are pretty much industry standard and used everywhere.

If you are on Mac then software is about 5 years behind and some functions are limited (one being you cannot view the camera streams via safari)

The apps and hardware are good and rarely fail. The only issues we have ever had with ours is hard drives failing but that's not a hikvision issue.

The proper hik stuff has worked on safari without a plugin for around 18 months. Most recorders from the last 5 years can have their firmware updated to allow this.

Interesting. I'll look into that, thanks. Is there a list of nvrs that are able to be upgraded.

Upgrading stuff like this always gives me the willies.

EDIT.... no update available for mine, must be too old.

Edited by thebraketester on Sunday 9th January 11:40

[Chris Type R]

anxious_ant said:

I have also stumbled across the one you've added at £550, and yes the turret camera does offer more flexibility in mounting options.

The thing to note here is that the NVR in the cheaper bundle is 5MP, and the NVR in the more expensive bundle is 4K. You can user lower resolution POE cameras with the 4K NVR.

You might even be able to assemble a cheaper equivalent by buying the NVR on its own and adding a mix of cameras (by looking at whatever is a 'deal' today) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reolink-Channel-Security-...

Going this route you would have to factor in the cost of cable.

As one of the other posters has said, it's not overly difficult to DIY install. Something like this can make the process of running cable in the loft a little less dusty. https://www.screwfix.com/p/ideal-tuff-grip-steel-p...

[anxious_ant]

LocoBlade said:

Not up for installing it yourself? Running Cat5 cable is perfectly DIY-able with a cheap tool kit from Amazon to terminate the ends, the overall difficulty entirely depends on what kind of access you have to soffits/loft spaces/under floorboards etc.

I don't think I am confident to DIY it, mainly due to the height. Few cameras would have to be mounted 2nd floor level. I do not have the ladder for this plus I have slight vertigo.

The installers I am talking to mentioned that the wiring would be external via conduit. Does this mean that the wiring doesn't go through the loft?
Instllation costs seems to range from £500-£900 at the moment.

[anxious_ant]

Chris Type R said:

anxious_ant said:

I have also stumbled across the one you've added at £550, and yes the turret camera does offer more flexibility in mounting options.

The thing to note here is that the NVR in the cheaper bundle is 5MP, and the NVR in the more expensive bundle is 4K. You can user lower resolution POE cameras with the 4K NVR.

You might even be able to assemble a cheaper equivalent by buying the NVR on its own and adding a mix of cameras (by looking at whatever is a 'deal' today) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reolink-Channel-Security-...

Going this route you would have to factor in the cost of cable.

As one of the other posters has said, it's not overly difficult to DIY install. Something like this can make the process of running cable in the loft a little less dusty. https://www.screwfix.com/p/ideal-tuff-grip-steel-p...

Many thanks again for your kind advice. I will have a look at the bundle options.
As my other reply, I am not overly confident of self installation due to the height, as I would need to mount the cameras outside and then run the cable into the loft.

The fish tape link is helpful though, as I am thinking of installing eternet wall sockets (Cat6a) in the house. This is done in the loft which I can handle

[LocoBlade]

anxious_ant said:

I don't think I am confident to DIY it, mainly due to the height. Few cameras would have to be mounted 2nd floor level. I do not have the ladder for this plus I have slight vertigo.

The installers I am talking to mentioned that the wiring would be external via conduit. Does this mean that the wiring doesn't go through the loft?
Instllation costs seems to range from £500-£900 at the moment.

Yeh sounds like they're planning to put electrical conduit (probably plastic tube like you see in offices/workshops where wiring isn't embedded in the wall) around to run the Cat5 through. That might be the only choice in some circumstances due to lack of access but I suspect they're doing it more for convenience / predicable job timeframes rather than anything else, running it through the loft and coming out in the soffit would be the best option aesthetically as you won't see anything externally other than the camera itself.

Edited by LocoBlade on Sunday 9th January 11:42

[anxious_ant]

LocoBlade said:

Yeh sounds like they're planning to put electrical conduit (probably plastic tube like you see in offices/workshops where wiring isn't embedded in the wall) around to run the Cat5 through. That might be the only choice in some circumstances due to lack of access but I suspect they're doing it more for convenience / predicable job timeframes rather than anything else, running it through the loft and coming out in the soffit would be the best option aesthetically as you won't see anything externally other than the camera itself.

I am just a bit concerned that the conduits will look ugly. The comms room would be at the front of the property, so not too sure how the conduit would look.
The property would be empty during this due to renovation work so I don't think access would be an issue.

[LocoBlade]

If you're happy to run wiring through the loft etc as you mentioned above perhaps you could get Cat5 to the corners of the loft roughly where the cameras will be positioned outside then pay a local handyman to bring a ladder, drill a hole and put them up? You could stay inside the loft feeding the cable through to him.

[Chris Type R]

LocoBlade said:

anxious_ant said:

I don't think I am confident to DIY it, mainly due to the height. Few cameras would have to be mounted 2nd floor level. I do not have the ladder for this plus I have slight vertigo.

The installers I am talking to mentioned that the wiring would be external via conduit. Does this mean that the wiring doesn't go through the loft?
Instllation costs seems to range from £500-£900 at the moment.

Yeh sounds like they're planning to put electrical conduit (probably plastic tube like you see in offices/workshops where wiring isn't embedded in the wall) around to run the Cat5 through. That might be the only choice in some circumstances due to lack of access but I suspect they're doing it more for convenience / predicable job timeframes rather than anything else, running it through the loft and coming out in the soffit would be the best option aesthetically as you won't see anything externally other than the camera itself.

If it's double-story, you don't want the cameras at soffit height - it looks nicer/cleaner, but makes it more challenging to record faces or detail at night. I've done mine at about 7 ft height around the building - my property is conveniently 2/3rds ground level and 1/3 double. Like OP I have an evolved respect for distance from ground level

I also think the compelling reason for installing cctv is to act as a deterrent, so you want the cameras in plain sight.

OP, something else to consider is placement - which is where a professional might be able to help. For example, cameras facing south might be blinded by sunlight. Cameras without a stand-off might lose 20% of the recording area due to proximity to a wall etc

I'm sure it's true of many other systems, but Reolink also includes the ability to "paint" the detection area, and level of sensitivity - as well as being able to black out areas of the camera e.g. where they might face a public area or neighbour.

PS, you'll find spiders love the cameras (due to the night vision), so you'll want to be able to clear webs.

Edited by Chris Type R on Sunday 9th January 11:53

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Chris Type R said:

If it's double-story, you don't want the cameras at soffit height - it looks nicer/cleaner, but makes it more challenging to record faces or detail at night. I've done mine at about 7 ft height around the building - my property is conveniently 2/3rds ground level and 1/3 double. Like OP I have an evolved respect for distance from ground level

100% this. Too high up is not good. The best ones we’ve got are just high enough to be out of reach and just low enough to capture good detail.

[Chris Type R]

LocoBlade said:

If you're happy to run wiring through the loft etc as you mentioned above perhaps you could get Cat5 to the corners of the loft roughly where the cameras will be positioned outside then pay a local handyman to bring a ladder, drill a hole and put them up? You could stay inside the loft feeding the cable through to him.

This sounds like a sensible plan.

[LocoBlade]

Chris Type R said:

If it's double-story, you don't want the cameras at soffit height - it looks nicer/cleaner, but makes it more challenging to record faces or detail at night. I've done mine at about 7 ft height around the building - my property is conveniently 2/3rds ground level and 1/3 double. Like OP I have an evolved respect for distance from ground level

I'd have both to be honest, soffit height gives a good overview of what's going on outside, lower cameras at points where faces/number plates are more likely to be identifiable such as around the front door, side access, driveway etc might not give that same overall view. Any crim worth his salt will wear a hoody / mask / shine a torch at the camera to avoid a recognisable face shot so not sure there's much value in positioning them specifically for that purpose but you do want some at lower level definitely.

[OldGermanHeaps]

thebraketester said:

Interesting. I'll look into that, thanks. Is there a list of nvrs that are able to be upgraded.

Upgrading stuff like this always gives me the willies.

EDIT.... no update available for mine, must be too old.

Edited by thebraketester on Sunday 9th January 11:40

The automatic update never works, you need to manually download and apply it from the hik uk portal. Be very careful to use the right file or you will brick it.

[OldGermanHeaps]

Chris Type R said:

If it's double-story, you don't want the cameras at soffit height - it looks nicer/cleaner, but makes it more challenging to record faces or detail at night. I've done mine at about 7 ft height around the building - my property is conveniently 2/3rds ground level and 1/3 double. Like OP I have an evolved respect for distance from ground level

I also think the compelling reason for installing cctv is to act as a deterrent, so you want the cameras in plain sight.

OP, something else to consider is placement - which is where a professional might be able to help. For example, cameras facing south might be blinded by sunlight. Cameras without a stand-off might lose 20% of the recording area due to proximity to a wall etc

I'm sure it's true of many other systems, but Reolink also includes the ability to "paint" the detection area, and level of sensitivity - as well as being able to black out areas of the camera e.g. where they might face a public area or neighbour.

PS, you'll find spiders love the cameras (due to the night vision), so you'll want to be able to clear webs.

Edited by Chris Type R on Sunday 9th January 11:53

Thats another benefit of colorvu, far less spiders. Spiders love infra red, and colourvu has no ir.
Spiderx spray is good too.

[anxious_ant]

Many thanks for all the helpful advice.
I am really terrible with heights, best I could muster is to fit PIR light about 8ft off the ground, even then I had case of wobbly legs.

My plan is to source the kit myself and seek help for the installation part.
It would be helpful to get some professional advice regarding the placement of cameras.

Regarding kit both HiLook (with colour night vision) and Reolink 4K is within budget (~£500). Just have to figure out which works best.
I suppose it comes down to the camera choice, I will discuss this with the installers.

p/s: Is the only way to multi-quote copy and paste each quote manually?

[anxious_ant]

OldGermanHeaps said:

Thats another benefit of colorvu, far less spiders. Spiders love infra red, and colourvu has no ir.
Spiderx spray is good too.

I use jet wash to blast spider webs Does the job.
Thing about IR is they tend to fail after a while. Current system is around 10 years old and noticed almost half the IR won't turn on.

[OldGermanHeaps]

anxious_ant said:

I use jet wash to blast spider webs Does the job.
Thing about IR is they tend to fail after a while. Current system is around 10 years old and noticed almost half the IR won't turn on.

Thats another plus for hik, they dont use dozens of overdriven small leds, the use proper powr leds with heatsinking and thermal managment of current, never had an ir go in them in tens of thousands fitted.
Had other issues like water ingress and sticking icr filters but never an ir issue, and the 3 year warranty is good.
If you go turbo hd instead of ip you could probably get 4k colorvus close to budget.