ev at the cost of everything else
Discussion
off_again said:
And importantly, nothing will happen in the intervening 11 years. There will be no change in the production of electricity, nor will EVs get cheaper or that the charging infrastructure will improve. But on the other hand, do you really think that a decision by one government will remain in effect 11 years later? No change in party absolutely doesnt change any previously defined policy - that never happens, right?
Things change. Maybe EV's will be the dominant player by the time the enforcement comes in? Maybe the international monetary system will collapse by then?
What a ridiculous assertion to make. Nor will EVs get cheaper during the next 11 years? What about the T03 from Leapmotor coming to the UK that is likely to be even cheaper than the Dacia Spring and would be the UK's cheapest new electric car. Things change. Maybe EV's will be the dominant player by the time the enforcement comes in? Maybe the international monetary system will collapse by then?
Have you read Labour's industrial policy? They will reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans - I am not a Labour fan myself, but hooray if they do bring the ban back to 2030.
Are you even aware that the UK government came up with an Industrial Decarbonisation Strategy in 2021? The first major economy to do so.
We have to decarbonise our economy over time, even if you don't like how that would bring changes to your daily life.
raspy said:
off_again said:
And importantly, nothing will happen in the intervening 11 years. There will be no change in the production of electricity, nor will EVs get cheaper or that the charging infrastructure will improve. But on the other hand, do you really think that a decision by one government will remain in effect 11 years later? No change in party absolutely doesnt change any previously defined policy - that never happens, right?
Things change. Maybe EV's will be the dominant player by the time the enforcement comes in? Maybe the international monetary system will collapse by then?
What a ridiculous assertion to make. Nor will EVs get cheaper during the next 11 years? What about the T03 from Leapmotor coming to the UK that is likely to be even cheaper than the Dacia Spring and would be the UK's cheapest new electric car. Things change. Maybe EV's will be the dominant player by the time the enforcement comes in? Maybe the international monetary system will collapse by then?
Have you read Labour's industrial policy? They will reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans - I am not a Labour fan myself, but hooray if they do bring the ban back to 2030.
Are you even aware that the UK government came up with an Industrial Decarbonisation Strategy in 2021? The first major economy to do so.
We have to decarbonise our economy over time, even if you don't like how that would bring changes to your daily life.
My point is that there will be a change or shift at some point. Things are accelerating dramatically in all areas and its amazing to watch from the sidelines. EV's are getting more efficient and have longer range than ever. Hybrids are now amazingly economical and improving and ICE vehicles will still continue to improve too. And thats before we talk about the continual improvements in battery and energy production. I cannot predict the future but I remain optimistic in general though. Just looking at the improvements in air quality in the major cities illustrates that something has changed and we need to continue to change.
Personally, I overlook the Sacramento Valley area - notoriously bad air quality for a lot of the days in a year. On the bad days, its terrible. But it has improved over the last 20 years, but the pace of the improvement is slowing and something needs to change. Most of the emissions are not vehicles, but you get the point. Something somewhere needs to change or dramatically improve.
dvs_dave said:
richhead said:
the push for ev is greater than ever, but what about alternative options, ev doesnt work for everyone, it never will.
plus it mainly uses fossil fuel to generate, sure there are wind farms/ solar etc, but its not always windy or sunny, so a non starter for day to day use.
plus, live in a flat etc where you cant charge from home, expensive.
so ev is a bit of a niche market, sure it works for sum, but not all.
petrol works for most people, and we have the infrastructure in place.
why are bio fuels etc not being pushed more
the fact that the government had to incentivize ev in the first place shows it isnt really a cure all fix.
market forces usually does that.
Oh come on, GTFOH. EV troll bingo full house, Mr Richard Head.plus it mainly uses fossil fuel to generate, sure there are wind farms/ solar etc, but its not always windy or sunny, so a non starter for day to day use.
plus, live in a flat etc where you cant charge from home, expensive.
so ev is a bit of a niche market, sure it works for sum, but not all.
petrol works for most people, and we have the infrastructure in place.
why are bio fuels etc not being pushed more
the fact that the government had to incentivize ev in the first place shows it isnt really a cure all fix.
market forces usually does that.
Parrots due all round!
t into one post!Virtually all his facts and statements are provably incorrect.
He even managed to misspell 'some'
What a Richard.
cerb4.5lee said:
It is great to see everyone getting on with each other as usual! 
I do wonder if eventually there will be some harmony between the two camps though?
Of course there will be. Eventually EV will be normal and entirely uncontentious. Those that rallied against the change will forget about the upset and find new clouds to wave their fists at I do wonder if eventually there will be some harmony between the two camps though?
cerb4.5lee said:
I do wonder if eventually there will be some harmony between the two camps though?
Even now I don't think there's really "two camps", at least on here. There's one broad camp of "people who enthuse about cars", but there's a few odd people who refuse to walk into particular areas of that camp (or in some cases even that that area of the camp exists); be it EVs, particular brands, particular nationalities of cars, or whatever. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th May 08:52
kambites said:
This bit is factually incorrect. In 2023, roughly a third of the UK's electricity was generated by burning fossil fuels:
(Source the National Grid website)
Obviously, some of that import will be fossil fuels, bumping it perhaps slightly above a third, but not by much because we mainly import from France (which is almost entirely nuclear) and Norway (which is mostly hydro).
And this year so far, the gas share has dropped by a further couple of percent.
It won't matter how much we post any of this, these people are driven by their feelings, not facts. (Source the National Grid website)
Obviously, some of that import will be fossil fuels, bumping it perhaps slightly above a third, but not by much because we mainly import from France (which is almost entirely nuclear) and Norway (which is mostly hydro).
And this year so far, the gas share has dropped by a further couple of percent.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th May 20:07
These are the same people who would say someone was a witch, devil, science isn't real, the world is flat (etc etc - see even recent history).
kambites said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I do wonder if eventually there will be some harmony between the two camps though?
Even now I don't think there's really "two camps", at least on here. There's one broad camp of "people who enthuse about cars", but there's a few odd people who refuse to walk into particular areas of that camp (or in some cases even that that area of the camp exists); be it EVs, particular brands, particular nationalities of cars, or whatever. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th May 08:52
I think because this website started out as a TVR website, you will still have a lot of folk who love noisy engines, however the EV camp do generally seem to struggle with that though, in much the same way that I struggle with cars without engines in them for example.
Also in the same way that if you support Liverpool FC...you're not going to support Manchester United as well if you understand what I mean for example. It can't and shouldn't happen for me, and I don't think that there isn't anything wrong with that either. You just pick the side that you like best/support to me.
Obviously there will be exceptions where you have folk who like both ICE and EV, but I'm not one of them though.
cerb4.5lee said:
kambites said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I do wonder if eventually there will be some harmony between the two camps though?
Even now I don't think there's really "two camps", at least on here. There's one broad camp of "people who enthuse about cars", but there's a few odd people who refuse to walk into particular areas of that camp (or in some cases even that that area of the camp exists); be it EVs, particular brands, particular nationalities of cars, or whatever. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th May 08:52
I think because this website started out as a TVR website, you will still have a lot of folk who love noisy engines, however the EV camp do generally seem to struggle with that though, in much the same way that I struggle with cars without engines in them for example.
Also in the same way that if you support Liverpool FC...you're not going to support Manchester United as well if you understand what I mean for example. It can't and shouldn't happen for me, and I don't think that there isn't anything wrong with that either. You just pick the side that you like best/support to me.
Obviously there will be exceptions where you have folk who like both ICE and EV, but I'm not one of them though.
At the end of the day, virtually all PH members and EV fans only came to PH in the first place as they had an interest in cars before EV's were available. We've all had and loved interesting ICE cars.
Obviously most haven't had an EV, so those that have had both are clearly better rounded and reasonable individuals
While you're all busy worrying about ICE vs EV, there's a very real battle you're overlooking, the one about whether you get to own and drive a car at all.
Cities around the country are doing what they can to dissuade and block cars going into/around/out of the city. Take Oxford and it's bus gates as a good example. I'm not saying this is a foregone conclusion, but no matter whether you prefer EV or ICE, it's another threat to your choice.
Cities around the country are doing what they can to dissuade and block cars going into/around/out of the city. Take Oxford and it's bus gates as a good example. I'm not saying this is a foregone conclusion, but no matter whether you prefer EV or ICE, it's another threat to your choice.
cerb4.5lee said:
For me there are definitely "two camps" on here especially. I'm not saying that is right by the way, because personally I'd rather be a lover than a fighter(unless someone really upsets me!).
I don't think the anti-EV people on here are really any different than people who don't like automatics, or turbos, or diesels, or cars with electronic driver aids, or whatever; nor do I think pro-EV PHers are any different than those who accept such things. 
TheDeuce said:
Of course there will be. Eventually EV will be normal and entirely uncontentious. Those that rallied against the change will forget about the upset and find new clouds to wave their fists at
I wonder if we’ll have people arguing about different battery technologies in a few years timephil4 said:
While you're all busy worrying about ICE vs EV, there's a very real battle you're overlooking, the one about whether you get to own and drive a car at all.
Cities around the country are doing what they can to dissuade and block cars going into/around/out of the city. Take Oxford and it's bus gates as a good example. I'm not saying this is a foregone conclusion, but no matter whether you prefer EV or ICE, it's another threat to your choice.
Maybe those authorities would like to give choice to pedestrians and cyclists to be able to move around more easily and mass transport is far superior to having numerous cars with single occupants for most of the time is simply not viable. Cities around the country are doing what they can to dissuade and block cars going into/around/out of the city. Take Oxford and it's bus gates as a good example. I'm not saying this is a foregone conclusion, but no matter whether you prefer EV or ICE, it's another threat to your choice.
It will in time also reduce noise and pollution from our city centres.
autumnsum said:
It won't matter how much we post any of this, these people are driven by their feelings, not facts.
These are the same people who would say someone was a witch, devil, science isn't real, the world is flat (etc etc - see even recent history).
Climate Change is a real problem for Flat-Earthers.....it can push them over the edge!These are the same people who would say someone was a witch, devil, science isn't real, the world is flat (etc etc - see even recent history).
Nomme de Plum said:
Maybe those authorities would like to give choice to pedestrians and cyclists to be able to move around more easily and mass transport is far superior to having numerous cars with single occupants for most of the time is simply not viable.
It will in time also reduce noise and pollution from our city centres.
That's exactly what they're thinking. The problem is that places like Oxford Mass transport is politely described as poor, and as a reasonably small city, the need to travel outside it (or indeed into it) is very real. All it does in the short term is kills off the city, as no one is either willing or able to go there, and those inside find their lives very much disturbed, so it becomes an undesirable place to move to. As I say, ICE or EV there's a real threat to a car at all.It will in time also reduce noise and pollution from our city centres.
Uncle boshy said:
TheDeuce said:
Of course there will be. Eventually EV will be normal and entirely uncontentious. Those that rallied against the change will forget about the upset and find new clouds to wave their fists at
I wonder if we’ll have people arguing about different battery technologies in a few years timeSo at that point the angry old fart brigade will focus their angst on where the batteries are made. "China... grrrrr.. ARGH!!!?!?!!!!!!"
If you can't rely on facts to denigrate something you just don't like, virtue signalling is a good backup
phil4 said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Maybe those authorities would like to give choice to pedestrians and cyclists to be able to move around more easily and mass transport is far superior to having numerous cars with single occupants for most of the time is simply not viable.
It will in time also reduce noise and pollution from our city centres.
That's exactly what they're thinking. The problem is that places like Oxford Mass transport is politely described as poor, and as a reasonably small city, the need to travel outside it (or indeed into it) is very real. All it does in the short term is kills off the city, as no one is either willing or able to go there, and those inside find their lives very much disturbed, so it becomes an undesirable place to move to. As I say, ICE or EV there's a real threat to a car at all.It will in time also reduce noise and pollution from our city centres.
Nomme de Plum said:
'They' are elected councillors that determine city transport needs. Maybe now, after the recent local elections those councillors will mandate an improvement in public transport.
Like finish the park and ride that tens of millions to build, is finished, but isn't actually usable? I think you're crediting them with intelligence they don't have.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff