Christian Horner

[Sandpit Steve]

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

If those screenshots are genuine, and not photoshopped, how much “context” to you think Horny can add to avoid him looking like a totally stty boss who was banging his PA and got really upset when she called it off.

[Graveworm]

Sandpit Steve said:

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

If those screenshots are genuine, and not photoshopped, how much “context” to you think Horny can add to avoid him looking like a totally stty boss who was banging his PA and got really upset when she called it off.

This is my problem as well. No one has been able to show how any context could make the messages OK between a boss and their subordinate. That doesn't mean Red Bull have to sack Horner but, given the guidelines are if the employee says it was unwanted it was unwanted, they are struggling to exonerate him.
Literally all I can think of a claim that the messages were sent by someone else using the phone, or earlier exchanges where it was agreed, that they were going to act on messages as if it was inappropriate, and I don't see that as very likely.

Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 4th May 11:26

[paulguitar]

At the very least those messages make Horner appear like an embarrassing teen. It's not a good look for someone in his position.

[suffolk009]

jasonrobertson86 said:

DonkeyApple said:

In my case it is simply because someone sought to accuse me of something that I hadn't done. I probably should have ignored it as it was so asinine but I really don't like that sort of behaviour and have no respect for those who do so.

true. not worth bothering. its just the tinternet....

Sorry for the pedantry, but surely when you write tinternet (above), it's short for t'internet, which is short for the internet. So you'd not really write "just the the internet", just "just tinternet".

[TheDeuce]

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

[PlywoodPascal]

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

[TheDeuce]

PlywoodPascal said:

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

I think the two teams attract very different fans...

As for Horner, he's really done some damage to the team. Zak said yesterday he's seen an increase in CV's coming from RBR as a result of Newey's announcement. Horner can spin it however he wishes, claim that everything is tickity-boo, but of course it's not.

[PhilAsia]

TheDeuce said:

PlywoodPascal said:

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

I think the two teams attract very different fans...

Yup... +1

TheDeuce said:

As for Horner, he's really done some damage to the team. Horner can spin it however he wishes, claim that everything is tickity-boo, but of course it's not.

Ditto

[732NM]

TheDeuce said:

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

I noticed that too. It was very amusing.

It is extremely well known designers love regulation changes, it's far more interesting than finding another 1/00th in a stable well developed era.

I thought Horner had lost his mind saying that, it's just stupid.

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

TheDeuce said:

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

I noticed that too. It was very amusing.

It is extremely well known designers love regulation changes, it's far more interesting than finding another 1/00th in a stable well developed era.

I thought Horner had lost his mind saying that, it's just stupid.

Yep. Horner is bursting with st...

[Boom78]

I’m no Horner fan but regardless of his off track actions and slimyness he’s an out and out team principal, probably the best. He built a superb team that has dominated and if not dominating is always competitive. An imbecile he is not. I can’t think of anyone bar maybe toto who could have achieved what he has. His private life is just that, he alone needs to sort that out, it’s just been weaponised as part of the red bull ownership power struggle and we’re lapping it up. If he had done the same feats for a pseudo British team like Williams and Mc we’d be calling for knighthoods and to hell with the allegations.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:34

[732NM]

It's not his private life when it impacts his staff.

[Boom78]

But it’s been made into that, it takes 2 to tango. I really couldn’t give a crap about what anyone (footballers, rugby players, F1 drivers and tiddlewink champions) gets up to in their own time providing it’s not illegal. He’s had an extramarital affair, not yours or my problem.

In the cesspit of modern F1, banging your (consulting) PA is sod all, I’m more worried about regime money entering F1, sports washing, shady dealing, poor transparency etc

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:59

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 16:00

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 16:05

[Blib]

Boom78 said:

But it’s been made into that, it takes 2 to tango. I really couldn’t give a crap about what anyone (footballers, rugby players, F1 drivers and tiddlewink champions) gets up to in their own time providing it’s not illegal. He’s had an extramarital affair, not yours or my problem.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:59

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 16:00

The other person has made an official complaint and is now intent on taking it further.

This is no longer 'in their own time'.

[732NM]

Boom78 said:

But it’s been made into that, it takes 2 to tango. I really couldn’t give a crap about what anyone (footballers, rugby players, F1 drivers and tiddlewink champions) gets up to in their own time providing it’s not illegal. He’s had an extramarital affair, not yours or my problem.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:59

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 16:00

He has done something more than that. His employee is now suspended from work and bringing internal and external proceedings against him.

[TheDeuce]

Boom78 said:

I’m no Horner fan but regardless of his off track actions and slimyness he’s an out and out team principal, probably the best. He built a superb team that has dominated and if not dominating is always competitive. An imbecile he is not. I can’t think of anyone bar maybe toto who could have achieved what he has. His private life is just that, he alone needs to sort that out, it’s just been weaponised as part of the red bull ownership power struggle and we’re lapping it up. If he had done the same feats for a pseudo British team like Williams and Mc we’d be calling for knighthoods and to hell with the allegations.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:34

Yes, he's been very effective at his job - but he's weakened now by the fact a lot of people don't particularly like him very much. That makes him harder to forgive and harder to feel sorry for tbh.

And it's especially hard to find any sympathy for him when he's talking nonsense and to try and smooth over the mess he's created. It's incredibly offensive when someone lies because it means they believe those listening are stupid enough to believe them.

I'm not suggesting he has much choice than to try and maintain a certain image publicly - but unfortunately it's very tedious to witness him doing that.

[Boom78]

TheDeuce said:

Boom78 said:

I’m no Horner fan but regardless of his off track actions and slimyness he’s an out and out team principal, probably the best. He built a superb team that has dominated and if not dominating is always competitive. An imbecile he is not. I can’t think of anyone bar maybe toto who could have achieved what he has. His private life is just that, he alone needs to sort that out, it’s just been weaponised as part of the red bull ownership power struggle and we’re lapping it up. If he had done the same feats for a pseudo British team like Williams and Mc we’d be calling for knighthoods and to hell with the allegations.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:34

Yes, he's been very effective at his job

And this is the most crucial point, he wins stuff for RB. This isnt at you BTW but most posts I’m seeing in this thread, if your strip it back are nothing more than a chance to have a dig at the leading team, faux outrage, they don’t really care about the PA involved. If you want to beat RB, beat them on track. Faux outrage doesn’t win anything. And yes, I’m a Hamilton fanboi

[PhilAsia]

TheDeuce said:

Boom78 said:

I’m no Horner fan but regardless of his off track actions and slimyness he’s an out and out team principal, probably the best. He built a superb team that has dominated and if not dominating is always competitive. An imbecile he is not. I can’t think of anyone bar maybe toto who could have achieved what he has. His private life is just that, he alone needs to sort that out, it’s just been weaponised as part of the red bull ownership power struggle and we’re lapping it up. If he had done the same feats for a pseudo British team like Williams and Mc we’d be calling for knighthoods and to hell with the allegations.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:34

Yes, he's been very effective at his job - but he's weakened now by the fact a lot of people don't particularly like him very much. That makes him harder to forgive and harder to feel sorry for tbh.

And it's especially hard to find any sympathy for him when he's talking nonsense and to try and smooth over the mess he's created. It's incredibly offensive when someone lies because it means they believe those listening are stupid enough to believe them.

I'm not suggesting he has much choice than to try and maintain a certain image publicly - but unfortunately it's very tedious to witness him doing that.

He has always lied publicly, with an expectation that either the listeners are too stupid, or too forgetful of events to notice. He is just full of st.

[Blib]

Boom78 said:

And this is the most crucial point, he wins stuff for RB. This isnt at you BTW but most posts I’m seeing in this thread, if your strip it back are nothing more than a chance to have a dig at the leading team, faux outrage, they don’t really care about the PA involved. If you want to beat RB, beat them on track. Faux outrage doesn’t win anything. And yes, I’m a Hamilton fanboi

A straw man fallacy occurs when someone distorts or exaggerates another person's argument, and then attacks the distorted version of the argument instead of refuting the original point.

HTH.

[732NM]

Boom78 said:

And this is the most crucial point, he wins stuff for RB. This isnt at you BTW but most posts I’m seeing in this thread, if your strip it back are nothing more than a chance to have a dig at the leading team, faux outrage, they don’t really care about the PA involved. If you want to beat RB, beat them on track. Faux outrage doesn’t win anything.

Newey and lots of money was how that team succeeded. Unlike most TP, he didn't have to spend most of his time chasing sponsors to survive. The real test comes now.