RE: Aston confirms 835hp V12 for new Vanquish
Discussion
LooneyTunes said:
As a former Taycan owner and current Vanquish S owner, I know which I'd rather have irrespective of relative straight line speeds.
They're just not the same beast.
Electric wins drag race. If race distance is longer than one charge lasts any ICE wins. It don't have to be Aston.They're just not the same beast.
Terminator X said:
Slightly O/T I was at car meet yesterday with loads of older cars; the smells, sounds and all round "emotion" was amazing. We forget how the Regs are bashing all our cars as time passes.
TX.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C43ontcvPgI/?igsh=b...TX.
wistec1 said:
Great. Absolutely fantastic. A proper monster two fingered salute to the EV led propaganda that's being forced fed to those who will digest it. Get the person responsible for this on the honors list.
Sorry to break it to you, but this isn't a two fingered salute to anyone, it's literally just a company producing a product that they think people will buy.Aston know that if they went electric they'd be up against the likes of Porsche and Tesla, which is a battle they cannot win as those companies spend more on R&D every day than Aston's entire annual budget. They also know that their target demographic don't want an EV for the things they use their Astons for. But if Lawrence Stroll thought he could make more money (or rather, lose less money, this is Aston after all!) with an electrified powertrain then he'd do that.
Tango13 said:
WhyOne said:
Magikarp said:
Crikey. The effort put into to romanticise the sound of engine. To equate the sound of an engine to music is going a little too far.
Completely disagree. Get a copy of Nick Mason's 'Into the Red' and listen to the (beautifully recorded) cd.
It's not just the sound of an engine either, the smell of a warm/hot engine as you open the bonnet and being able to feel the waft of warm air rising up from the engine to greet you, the smell of exhaust fumes on a cold and frosty morning is also part of what driving should be about along with the ticking and pinging of a slowly cooling engine.
just being around ICE cars is a joy a lot of the time. On track days I probably spend more time having a mooch round the pit seeing what’s about than on track, having a listen to things firing up/ flying past the pit wall etc. All emotional experiences that electric just can’t replace. The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
There's just the small matter of the 9500 rpm rev limit (and significantly higher capacity) for that engine to consider.
Aston's new V12 is probably designed around a 1000 Nm limit for the ZF.
The problem is that it's only got two tyres to send it through, and as per the DBS/Ultimate, I'm guessing they will dial down the torque in the lower gears.
In which case you don't get 835 bhp until the road speed is high enough to handle it.
The car is going to feel really punchy low down (like a diesel
) and have some seriously impressive high speed acceleration, but on UK roads I'd suggest the old Vanquish 6 litre would feel and sound more special more of the time.That's my opinion anyway, but then again I've never warmed to these sort of high boost engines, others might find the new engine exactly to their liking and I can totally understand why it's the best compromise given the limited choice of gearbox and the target markets.
GT9 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
There's just the small matter of the 9500 rpm rev limit (and significantly higher capacity) for that engine to consider.
Aston's new V12 is probably designed around a 1000 Nm limit for the ZF.
The problem is that it's only got two tyres to send it through, and as per the DBS/Ultimate, I'm guessing they will dial down the torque in the lower gears.
In which case you don't get 835 bhp until the road speed is high enough to handle it.
The car is going to feel really punchy low down (like a diesel
) and have some seriously impressive high speed acceleration, but on UK roads I'd suggest the old Vanquish 6 litre would feel and sound more special more of the time.That's my opinion anyway, but then again I've never warmed to these sort of high boost engines, others might find the new engine exactly to their liking and I can totally understand why it's the best compromise given the limited choice of gearbox and the target markets.
Also, the "like a diesel" thing isn't strictly true, it should be "like a turbocharged engine". Diesels only display the torque curves they do because they're turbocharged. Look at modern turbocharged petrol engine torque curve. The shape of the curve is very similar, just a wider rev range.
E90_M3Ross said:
Even the Ferrari is 789bhp and is 6.5L so only 121bhp/L, I'd like to know which 160bhp/L NA engines he is referring to. The only I can think of is the Gordon Murray T.50 which costs what, 10x this car, and secondly, that's only one other engine, and far from an Aston competitor. So yeah, I would like to know which ones he's referring to.
Also, the "like a diesel" thing isn't strictly true, it should be "like a turbocharged engine". Diesels only display the torque curves they do because they're turbocharged. Look at modern turbocharged petrol engine torque curve. The shape of the curve is very similar, just a wider rev range.
812 Competizione has 819 bhp.Also, the "like a diesel" thing isn't strictly true, it should be "like a turbocharged engine". Diesels only display the torque curves they do because they're turbocharged. Look at modern turbocharged petrol engine torque curve. The shape of the curve is very similar, just a wider rev range.
I suspect manymotors wasn't really distinguishing between the two different capacities.
Aston aren't exactly short of experience with 7 litre NA V12s, but it seems they will remain out of reach for the serial production cars.
The gearbox options they have available to them also comes into it of course.
GT9 said:
812 Competizione has 819 bhp.
I suspect manymotors wasn't really distinguishing between the two different capacities.
Aston aren't exactly short of experience with 7 litre NA V12s, but it seems they will remain out of reach for the serial production cars.
The gearbox options they have available to them also comes into it of course.
819bhp is still a long way off 160bhp/L though so just be interested to know which "others" are getting 160bhp/L I suspect manymotors wasn't really distinguishing between the two different capacities.
Aston aren't exactly short of experience with 7 litre NA V12s, but it seems they will remain out of reach for the serial production cars.
The gearbox options they have available to them also comes into it of course.
Hopefully he'll respond soon as I csnt really think of any aside from the T50, which is definitely not a rival to this car, and even then that's only 1 manufacturer.
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
Edited by ManyMotors on Thursday 2nd May 21:49
ManyMotors said:
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
that engine is hardly going to be refined enough for a big GT car. Neither the Lambo or Ferrari make 160bhp/L? So just the Valkyrie? Neither of those cars also have near the same torque as this car either. Right, fair enough
Do you think this car would be better with:
A - the same bhp but lower capacity and less torque
B - the same engine capacity but even more power?
Do you think, with the 177bhp/L and 920bhp you mention it would make it a tangibly better car than instead of the meagre 835bhp it has?
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
The 835 hp from a turbocharged five-liter V12 seems a bit low when others are getting that much from NA.
AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
835bhp for 5.2L - which NA engines in road cars do that? The fact you said "others" rather than a specific brand suggests at least 2?AM is in boisterous bluster mode as it looks into the crevasse of financial collapse. Says Larry: "Oh look, market, we have so many great things coming!". Though I hope the entity stays solvent, they must begin to sell vehicles.
that engine is hardly going to be refined enough for a big GT car. Neither the Lambo or Ferrari make 160bhp/L? So just the Valkyrie? Neither of those cars also have near the same torque as this car either. Right, fair enough
Do you think this car would be better with:
A - the same bhp but lower capacity and less torque
B - the same engine capacity but even more power?
Do you think, with the 177bhp/L and 920bhp you mention it would make it a tangibly better car than instead of the meagre 835bhp it has?
Again, I never stated the NA displacement. But the specific power at 160 hp/ L of the new V12 isn't relatively high. The 296 comes in at over 210 hp/L as does the MB GT43. Plus, shouldn't the celebration of final V12s require natural aspiration rather than suffer from muting turbos?
My personal preference in modern power is to hybridize like an SF90, 296, Artura or E-Ray.
Would whatever vehicle be better with more power? I think there are limits because of what can be put to the ground. But in the offerings of expensive vehicles, high numbers are important.
The most important point I am making is that AM is in trouble and is putting out undefined, chest-beating news in an effort to keep their flame burning. Though somewhat difficult to see, I wish Lawrence Stroll the best of good luck and hope he does better than David Brown. Maybe a new series beginning with an Aston Martin LS1 or going directly to a LS5 is in order - but that does read like so much Chevy.
ManyMotors said:
E90, We don't know what the price of the Vanquish will be and the article says "Though it should be noted that the engine will be ‘handcrafted, year by year, in strictly limited numbers.’"
Again, I never stated the NA displacement. But the specific power at 160 hp/ L of the new V12 isn't relatively high. The 296 comes in at over 210 hp/L as does the MB GT43. Plus, shouldn't the celebration of final V12s require natural aspiration rather than suffer from muting turbos?
My personal preference in modern power is to hybridize like an SF90, 296, Artura or E-Ray.
Would whatever vehicle be better with more power? I think there are limits because of what can be put to the ground. But in the offerings of expensive vehicles, high numbers are important.
The most important point I am making is that AM is in trouble and is putting out undefined, chest-beating news in an effort to keep their flame burning. Though somewhat difficult to see, I wish Lawrence Stroll the best of good luck and hope he does better than David Brown. Maybe a new series beginning with an Aston Martin LS1 or going directly to a LS5 is in order - but that does read like so much Chevy.
You mentioned others are doing naturally aspirated engines with the same or more bhp/L..... So far you have managed to mention three cars. Two of which don't produce 160bhp/L NA as they're turbocharged hybrids and the other is a car which costs a LOT more, and is very much a track focused car Again, I never stated the NA displacement. But the specific power at 160 hp/ L of the new V12 isn't relatively high. The 296 comes in at over 210 hp/L as does the MB GT43. Plus, shouldn't the celebration of final V12s require natural aspiration rather than suffer from muting turbos?
My personal preference in modern power is to hybridize like an SF90, 296, Artura or E-Ray.
Would whatever vehicle be better with more power? I think there are limits because of what can be put to the ground. But in the offerings of expensive vehicles, high numbers are important.
The most important point I am making is that AM is in trouble and is putting out undefined, chest-beating news in an effort to keep their flame burning. Though somewhat difficult to see, I wish Lawrence Stroll the best of good luck and hope he does better than David Brown. Maybe a new series beginning with an Aston Martin LS1 or going directly to a LS5 is in order - but that does read like so much Chevy.
no we don't know the cost of this, but if you think it'll be anywhere near the price of a Valkyrie you're way off I said somewhere around 10x the price of this, it's about $4m so I doubt I'm too far off.You didn't state the displacement, no. But you didn't need to. You said over 160bhp/L. I have merely asked which NA engines have produced 160bhp/L.
So yeah, just curious which NA engines you were referring to.
E90_M3Ross said:
ManyMotors said:
E90, We don't know what the price of the Vanquish will be and the article says "Though it should be noted that the engine will be ‘handcrafted, year by year, in strictly limited numbers.’"
Again, I never stated the NA displacement. But the specific power at 160 hp/ L of the new V12 isn't relatively high. The 296 comes in at over 210 hp/L as does the MB GT43. Plus, shouldn't the celebration of final V12s require natural aspiration rather than suffer from muting turbos?
My personal preference in modern power is to hybridize like an SF90, 296, Artura or E-Ray.
Would whatever vehicle be better with more power? I think there are limits because of what can be put to the ground. But in the offerings of expensive vehicles, high numbers are important.
The most important point I am making is that AM is in trouble and is putting out undefined, chest-beating news in an effort to keep their flame burning. Though somewhat difficult to see, I wish Lawrence Stroll the best of good luck and hope he does better than David Brown. Maybe a new series beginning with an Aston Martin LS1 or going directly to a LS5 is in order - but that does read like so much Chevy.
You mentioned others are doing naturally aspirated engines with the same or more bhp/L..... So far you have managed to mention three cars. Two of which don't produce 160bhp/L NA as they're turbocharged hybrids and the other is a car which costs a LOT more, and is very much a track focused car Again, I never stated the NA displacement. But the specific power at 160 hp/ L of the new V12 isn't relatively high. The 296 comes in at over 210 hp/L as does the MB GT43. Plus, shouldn't the celebration of final V12s require natural aspiration rather than suffer from muting turbos?
My personal preference in modern power is to hybridize like an SF90, 296, Artura or E-Ray.
Would whatever vehicle be better with more power? I think there are limits because of what can be put to the ground. But in the offerings of expensive vehicles, high numbers are important.
The most important point I am making is that AM is in trouble and is putting out undefined, chest-beating news in an effort to keep their flame burning. Though somewhat difficult to see, I wish Lawrence Stroll the best of good luck and hope he does better than David Brown. Maybe a new series beginning with an Aston Martin LS1 or going directly to a LS5 is in order - but that does read like so much Chevy.
no we don't know the cost of this, but if you think it'll be anywhere near the price of a Valkyrie you're way off I said somewhere around 10x the price of this, it's about $4m so I doubt I'm too far off.You didn't state the displacement, no. But you didn't need to. You said over 160bhp/L. I have merely asked which NA engines have produced 160bhp/L.
So yeah, just curious which NA engines you were referring to.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff